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A post by "Chris Brown" | http://expatriateruminations.com/Blog/ To see more posts by this author, click here. |
The murder rate in Mexico has actually dropped by 30% from 1997 through last year, the LA Times reports. However there are localities, such as Juarez in the state of Chihuahua, where the local murder rate is amongst the highest in the world. “If the state of Chihuahua were a country, today we would have the fourth-highest level of major violence in the world”, observed Chihuahua Sen. Gustavo Madero.
Looked at another way, though, Mexico isn’t as deadly as it used to be.
That’s the point the nation’s attorney general, Eduardo Medina Mora, was pushing this week when he cited figures showing that Mexico’s overall homicide rate has fallen since the 1990s.
“The levels of violence that the country is experiencing are very serious,” Medina Mora told a gathering of advertising executives. “But they are much less than we had 15 years ago.”
The drug-related violence has scared away tourists and prompted some commentators to warn that Mexico risks collapse. But Medina Mora said the country registered about 11 homicides per 100,000 residents last year, down from 16 in 1997.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
According to nationmaster.com, the most recent data for murder rate in Mexico is 13 per 100,000 (sixth highest in the world) compared to only 4.2 per 100,000 in the USA (24th highest in the world). Other sources seem to support those numbers. So tell me again why you expats in Mexico feel so safe?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
I’m tempted to simply ask why I should tell you again why we “expats in Mexico feel so safe?” Your comment is explicit, we’ve already told you.
In fact, I think I’ll leave it at that. Read through the posts here.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Ronald, we feel safe because we don’t live in Ciudad Juárez and we don’t deal drugs.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Chris: just came across this blog, and glad to have found that some reasonable people are out there putting things into context and looking at real numbers (not reacting to fear-mongering). A few weeks ago we analyzed the State Department data looking at the non-natural death locations and causes (something mentioned in a previous blog post), and found it interesting to note that there were more deaths of Americans in Mexico in auto and motorcycle accidents than by anything crime-related.
We also just updated the city-level murder rate data for Tijuana versus other major US cities, and can state that Tijuana’s murder rate this year (through October 2009) is (once again) almost equal to Baltimore, Maryland (TJ is at 28.9 per 100K, Baltimore is at 28.7 per 100k); almost on par with St. Louis, MO (27.1 per 100K), or Rio de Janiero (26.1 per 100k); and far under Camden, New Jersey (37.9) or New Orleans (44.2).
Going back to the comment from “Ronald” above, the NationMaster stats you cite actually are in agreement with the quote in the posting: the data on NationMaster is directly from a UN report using 1998-2000 year data — in other words, murder rates amongst the general population of Mexico were perhaps higher at that point in time…and have (according to the quote in the article) been declining. If you look up the UN data that NationMaster’s data uses, there are actually UPDATED stats from 2005-2006 that, indeed, show that Mexico’s murder rate is declining (down to 10.97 – not huge, but a decline) and the US rate actually increased (up to 5.62 per 100k). So…the comments in the article actually are backed up.
We’re a bit obsessed with looking for good sources of data when we do analyses related to the border and Mexico. Glad to see a site out there doing the same. Thanks.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Ken,
Thanks for an authoritative reality check. Thanks for the good work your group is doing.
Chris
December 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pm
My company, Adventure Mexican Insurance, provides Mexican auto insurance for US and Canadian cars driving to Mexico.
Our reality is this:
We insure about 30,000 US and Candian cars each year that drive to Mexico. We have not seen one single murder or violent act against any of our customers since we started selling Mexican auto insurance in 2001.
We have seen auto theft insurance claims, but none of them have been armed thefts. All of the claims involved the vehicle being stolen while the owner was away from the vehicle.
So yes, there have been acts of violence against tourists and expats, but the percentages are very small. Every year there are a few stories of tourists being harrased at gunpoint – but have you ever read the policy reports section of a US newspaper?
So this is our reality – 30,000 tourists per year that we insurance for driving in Mexico – since 2001, we have not seen one murder – not even an attempted murder.
As long as you stay out of the bad neighborhoods (these are not toruists areas), don’t drive on the highways at night, and definitely do NOT park overnight on the side of the road…statistically, there is almost zero chance that you will have any problems while drivign in Mexico.
Hope these numbers put some things in perspective for tourists.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:01 am
I must take issue with Ken’s statistics. He makes the common mistake of using very small US core cities whilst excluding their suburbs yet including most or all outlying areas for non-American cities. This is an irresponsible use of data according to the FBI statistics department and American society of Criminology.
2008 data (listed by total murders):
Rio de Janeiro = 3,856 murders / 10,078,789 residents
Tijuana = 577 murders / 1,286,187 residents
Philadelphia (includes Camden) = 530 murders / 5,836,682 residents
Baltimore = 300 murders / 2,666,452 residents
New Orleans = 250 murders / 1,114,055 residents
St. Louis = 233 murders / 2,820,831 residents
1. Rio’s missing a couple of very large, rough suburbs which would add about 1.5m on it’s population, probably up it’s rate per capita and push the total close to 5,000.
2. Tijuana’s slightly inflated as the population’s for the city not municipality which the deaths correspond to. It’s missing about 200,000 people I believe.
3. Camden’s part of the Philadelphia area.
Rio and Tijuana are so much higher it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone who may initially be mislead by claims that American cities are more dangerous. This is the proper way of comparing, if at all.
As far as Mexico the latest I have is for 2008 and the murders jumped to 12,577 (12 per 100,000) from 10,291 (10 per 100,000) in 2007.
February 13th, 2010 at 3:32 am
I have had the opportunity to travel to Mexico City two times and very recently Buenos Aires. I think these statistics aren’t the big picture. For example, averaging crimes in my home city Los Angeles would be useless as the neighborhoods and crimes are so drastically different. I personally loved Mexico City and suffered no crime. I didn’t feel my Mexico City neighborhood was quite as “safe” as my area in LA, but, wasn’t near as scary as my trip to New Orleans a number of years ago, or some of the neighborhoods in Phoenix where I once lived. Buenos Aires “felt” safe but my mate was pick pocketed and received a counterfeit bill. I plan on being an ex pat one day in Mexico City. The art, culture, restaurants, architecture are spectacular. For some reason, I loved and resonated with the people. I think the word hear is mindfulness, and must be practiced anywhere.
February 15th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Haven’t visited here in awhile, and just seeing Bud’s comments. I disagree with his analysis — it’s not a mistake to compare smaller cities, as they tend (in the US) to be some of the poorest and most violent, unfortunately. Yet, they also continue to be ignored in the media. The data we use is CITY-LEVEL — not metro. Camden, New Jersey, is (as far as I know) still a separate city — so we keep Philadelphia stats (directly from the Philadelphia Police Department) separate. We don’t include “most or all outlying areas” — as this wouldn’t be a reliable comparison. For those that understand Mexico, a “city” like Tijuana is actually called a “municipio” — a combination of a city and county type of legal entity. So, we use this as our base of comparison. Bud also uses very outdated population stats for Tijuana (which has an official 2009 population estimate of over 1.6 million — the figure we use), and I can’t say where his 2008 murder data come from (it was around 843 for full-year 2008, but my comments clearly talk about 2009 data through October — numbers that we collect directly from police and security sources in Baja California).
I see that Bud is also using REGIONAL population data — St. Louis, MO, (a city) has a population just over 350,000 yet here Bud uses the much larger 2.8 million for the entire planning region (which then hides the more violent situation in the core city). Saying that there are “1.1 million residents” of “New Orleans” is frankly incredibly misleading when one then uses the CITY murder data – the CITY population is at best 360,000 (not even the State Government estimates it that high: http://www.louisiana.gov/Explore/Population_Projections/). Even in the case of Rio de Janiero, the estimates I provided were not for a vague “outlying areas”, but for what the local Government of Rio considers “the city” – and counts on 2009 statistics provided for the City by their government.
So, again, when doing comparisons, the analysis I provided focuses on city-level data (both for violent acts AND the population), and we try to get the most-accurate and updated information available. I don’t mind a good critique and challenge about data, but before talking about “common mistakes” being made…well, I’d double check my own data first.
February 21st, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Tijuana (and Rio) is substantially more dangerous than American cities. A scientific critique will show it doesn’t pass the giggle test.
Mexico’s murder rates’ come down almost evry year which is a surprise looking at the drug cartel violence from the mid-90’s. But it is down.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:15 pm
I’ve been down to Juarez every year for the last 4 years to build houses for some poor families through my church. Despite being in the “most dangerous city of the world”, I’ve always felt safe. We’re not out at night, stay away from “bad” places, etc. In the areas we’re in, it’s a very normal experience…not the war zone shown on TV. In the last 2 years, we do see more of the military presence, some patrol vehicles driving around and such.
My question for you all is do you know or have any statistics that show what the murder rate is for Juarez when you take out the drug related murders? My experience has been that the majority of the violence is directed at competing cartels. I’d like to find some statistics that might help show it’s not a huge issue for us if we’re not out at night and aren’t involved in or around the drug/cartel stuff. It might be helpful when dealing with people who are scared to go down there.
Thanks.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Hi Denise. Juarez. (like TJ), is much more violent than US cities but you’re right, the violence is heavily weighted towards those involved. Street robberies and general crime involving unorganised delinquents that could target innocent people makes up a bigger percetntage of US cities murders. Not to say no-one innocent has died in Mex. though!
Bud’s 100% spot on btw. Perfect methodology.
March 18th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
I just returned from Mazatlan and was there for 10 days. There was a police attack on drug dealers, we were told small time dealers, and the police shot and killed 2 of them just minutes from downtown. That night the drug cartel retaliated and killed 3 cops downtown just a couple of blocks away from the golden zone. Also there was an attempted robbery across the street from our resort in a campground resort in which someone was shot in the leg. The city of Mazatlan is approximately a million people. The attack of drug dealers and the cops has alot to do with the fact that for years the police was corrupt and working with alot of the cartels and now the new president in Mexico is really taking the fight to them. So in my opinion living in Mazatlan would be no different than any million resident city in the US, in fact I feel safer there than New Orleans which has less than 500,000 people. Don’t live in N.O. but was on high alert the whole week there back in Nov. and heard gun fire every night.
James
March 24th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
I own a business in Puerto Vallarta, after retiring from the field of engineering in the United States. I lived in California, Los Angles for my whole life. It truely surprises me that people are making the deal out of Mexico. Juarez, Tijuan, El Paso, Nogales, border towns have always been like this, they will always be like this and to report these incidents as if this is a new situation is comical. CNN today did stories on the Blood Bath in Mexico… Not Juarez, Mexico!
Once you are outside of these areas, the crime is minimal as compared to what would be normal per captita in Los Angeles for example…. But the deal is this, People are not being killed in the streets with Machetes or bombs or guns, etc.
Of the 120 million mexicans in Mexico, 60 million visitors from North America come to this country yearly. Of those deaths against tourist, the numbers are very, very low…. I am not defending these deaths or behaviors, but like I said, I lived in Los Angeles and I feel safer on the streets in Puerto Vallarta at night than I ever felt on the hard life streets of L.A.
Look to sites like this for the read deal in the Mexican community….
I love Mexico, I wish the USA Press and Govt. would just leave the country alone and let them handle the business at hand. Mexico is doing it’s best to erradicate this problem, the united states needs to recognize this for what it iis, PROGRESS. If the drug cartels were not threatened, the deaths would down and everyone would be fine… But the cartels are pushing back, filling spots left open by raids, and expanding territories with expanding demand.
Stop the demand, stop the problem. If the problem can’t be fixed, it needs to be managed, if it can’t be fixed or Managed, then society has some interesting choices in front of it. But who would have ever imagined the influx of drungs into the American Psyche or lifestyle would ever get to this point. The North American society is addicted as a whole and when there is an addiction, even with senators and congressman going it rehab, how can you expect results.
You, Your neighbor, your friends, you are the drug problem. You users are the motivation of easy money buy less than educated slackers preying off those with an illegal desire to be in an altered drug induced state and who are we as straight american / mexican citizens to want to deny this overwhelming demand as they cry about the problem.
Kill the market, Kill the problem
Stan
April 7th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Ronald: the Mexican murder rate includes the killings between gang members, which stands for several thousands a year! If you filter away the killings between the gangs, the Mexican murder rate drops significantly! Actually, based on numbers I found on the Internet and some mathematics, I got a murder rate below 2 per 100,000! (source: numbers found on Milenio, Nationmaster, Inegi)
By the way, did you know that in the US, the amount of deaths in traffic accidents is 11.08 per 100,000? Just a little less than the murder rate in Mexico! So if you are so worried about your safety, I suggest not driving a car anymore
(source: dot.gov)
By the way, the 4.2 per 100,000 murder rate in the US (rank 24!), is very high if you compare it to other industrialized countries such as Europe or Japan. Nevertheless, Europeans still visit the US and do not put a travel warning against the US!!!
April 14th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
I don’t know about stats, I will however give you my point of view based of my experience…I have lived in Mexico for 42 years, I have travelled the country from north to south, by thumb, bus, car and plane. I moved from Mexico City to Cancún 21 years ago because I felt things were getting dangerous and that this wasn’t the place to bring up a family, when you know the victims of volent robbery and kidnapping, it’s getting closer to you. I am now moving my family to Canada because now it’s here in Cancún and it’s worse than you can imagine, the Zetas have control and extortions and kidnapping are a constant fear, we know many victims of this.
I doubt the stats for Mexico are accurate, do you really believe they keep track of things the same way they do in the US ? I can only imagine how many murders aren’t even registered.
Yes, Mexico has lived through hell many times and has survived and will continue to survive…Emiliano Zapata was a “bandido” and the people wrote songs “corridos” about him and followed him to overthrow an abusive government…Mexican stats say that 50% of the population lives in poverty to extreme poverty, do you know who the “corridos” are about now ????
Peace
Cary
June 9th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
A native Canadian, I have lived in Mexico for over 45 years now – and I have been a victim of more crime during my travels to different cities of the U.S. than I have in Mexico.
I am in the travel business – catering to foreign (mainly U.S. and Canadian) specialized cultural groups travelling anywhere within the Mexican Republic where they can enjoy infinitely more of cultural interest, museums, arts & crafts, history, arqueology, architecture, etc etc than anywhere else in North America. Why this prolonged barrage of “hate” from principally the American media reporters? It’s driving me nuts how gullible and susceptible people are to all the yellow journalism going on out there. Anyone would think we live “dodging bullets” down here. That is the farthest thing from the truth.
In Mexico City for instance, along the entire touristic routes of the city, there is even a special touristic police force assigned for the protection of tourists – where they walk around during the day or night safely and enjoying the exciting atmosphere prevalent in the city.
I can’t even figure out why Mexico is taking a far more prominent role in combating the drugs than the U.S. where the market comes from. Why aren’t the Americans fighting their own drug cartels instead of leaving all the responsability to the Mexican side of the border?
Be sure and watch the positive media coverage that will be going on during the World Soccer Cup starting this Friday, Jun. 11. Seeing is believing.
Karen alvarez